The Dicknotist still lives. I told you I'd still be here to answer questions. I thought it'd be of great value to all of you to break down another guy's seduction.Let call this reader, "Tommy."
Hey man, long time no talk. Took me a while, but I'm finally living the college life. Some pretty amazing things have happened since our last correspondence. It all started with me leaving the "community" and just following my instincts. Really glad I did, because I made more friends, had more fun, and I finally lost my v-card.Tommy! Great to hear from you. Glad to hear you’re out there fucking like the rest of us. I’ll be glad to add my two cents. Hmmm…where do I begin?
Can't stop there though. Right now I would really appreciate some sound advice on my situation. I know you're technically out of the game, but you're the only person I know who isn't blinded by community or mainstream rhetoric.
Met this chick over the summer and basically clicked right away. Spent the entire summer text-flirting, but never saw each other since the night we met until this past weekend.
I wish I could preface this with a transcript of the texts, but that’d take too long. In short, she gave me multiple IOI’s right off the bat and made a few SOI’s during the flirting phase. Actually scratch that. She basically threw herself at me via text. Yet, we still managed to drop out of touch for the second half of summer and the better part of the semester.
Anyway, she texts me over Thanksgiving break inviting me to a party in the ghetto part of town. I was bored as fuck, so I went. Super awkward at first. I called her and waited 5 minutes on the front porch before she finally let me in. People there turned out to be real chill and I got pretty drunk and high.
She and I spent a good amount of time fluffing, and soon after that I went off to mingle with the other guests. Later on that night I make fun of her because her eyes were red as fuck. Of course, I was high at the time, and she called me out on my own red eyes instantly.
We go into the bathroom together to get some Visine in our eyes, and she starts bitching about how people can see her bra because her shirt’s too low. Being the retard that I am, I just said “so fix it.” So she fixes it and then pulls her shirt AND her bra down even lower. Naturally I had to make fun of the irony. Again, she calls me out on my shit, so I respond with “yea truth be told, I very much appreciate the cleavage.” After that there was like a 5-second staring contest before we kissed.
After we were done I could tell she was starting freak out a little. Why else would you tell a guy you just kissed to "act normal"? I was too high to really be mindful of/give a shit about the situation, so I just shrugged it off and went back to the party.
At the end of the night, I'm sober, so I ask her how she’ll get home. Her response: “no idea where I’m staying. Maybe your place…” As if she didn’t drop enough blatantly forward hints already, this one I finally caught. So I take her back and the entire drive home she was all over me. Very distracting. I think I’d have driven better drunk lol. But at least I was able to CF with her during the drive.
So we get back to my place, and as I’m cleaning up, she’s already half-passed out in my bed still fully-clothed. At this point I’m thinking FUCK MY LIFE, but I decided to do a slow escalation process (Vin DiCarlo's shit is fuckin gold). Start with her sides, move to her belly, slowly lift her shirt. As I’m doing that, she just grabs my hand and places it over her boobs (over the clothes). A few minutes later, she redirects my hand under her bra, then between her legs. All clothes come off, and I start fingering her.
That was when anxiety kinda set in. She was moaning and shit, but quietly (mostly hard breathing), and I didn’t see, hear, or feel any orgasms, except for maybe one MUCH later in the session. Eventually there was insertion, but I was at half-mast the entire time and felt nothing. Though I think my physical dysfunction had more to do with me freaking out about not being able to find my condoms than it did with performance anxiety.
She started moaning louder and kept telling me “harder.” I couldn’t cum, and I don’t think she did either. After all was done, I realized I didn’t want this to be just a ONS, so I did the whole cuddling thing. Pass out for maybe an hour, then she wakes me up and directs my hand down there again. Another 30 minutes or so of fingering, and at this point I’m just completely wiped. 3 and a half hours for my first time. That’s gotta be a record. So we pass back out for another few hours.
We wake up, and surprisingly it wasn’t awkward at all. We avoided talking about the happenings of the night and carried on our usual fluff. She turned down my offer to make her breakfast, opting to dine out with her aunt and cousin instead. Her cousin comes, picks her up, and we temporarily part ways. Later on, she sends me a text saying “so last night was fun haha we'll have to do it again sometime.” Fuck yea. I invited her to a formal dance sponsored by my Fraternity, but she turned me down in favor of a rugby party. Wtf? We’re still in contact, though at this point interactions are extremely brief, partly because we both want to keep them brief. Is that a good way to go about this situation?
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Self-eval/Questions:
1. Dropping out of touch: I think it was because I wasn’t ballsy enough to make my own SOI, despite multiple windows of opportunity.
2. Missed quite a few hints during the party, including going to the bathroom together and her directing my attention to her chest by talking about it/adjusting her shirt. Though to my credit, after the kiss, I quickly defused the ensuing awkwardness just by not letting it get to me.
4. First kiss: I wasn’t the first mover. She was by a fraction of a second. I know what I need to do here: stop being so reactive and be more proactive. Timing and pacing this shit is really throwing me for a loop though. Guess it comes with time and practice. Oh, and forgot to mention that there was no kino prior to this. Just a shitload of CF. I guess sexual tension lingers, even after dropping out of touch.
5. CF during the drive: no idea if that was the right thing to do. Maybe it's just community rhetoric, but I was under the impression that during the actual seduction I should drop my hard shell and show her my creamy center. In hindsight, I think I was playing with a potential gamekiller.
6. Directing my hand: Loads of questions about this (for obvious reasons). Did I not escalate quickly enough? Was I not aggressive enough? Was she super turned on, or just drunk and impatient?
7. Quiet moaning: I'm trying hard not to get hung up on this part, but part of me thinks I was just another newbie trying to apply what I "learned" from watching hours and hours of porn... and failing miserably at it. In my defense, that was all I had, so I just went with it.
8. "Harder": related to the last question. Super-turned on, or a subtle way to say "not good enough"?
9. Morning after: no kissing or anything like that. Just cuddling fully clothed. Should I have been more forward and direct with her, especially about my intent to keep her around? Should we have talked about the night before? Basically, what the fuck should I have done, and what the fuck do I do?
10. Turning down my invite: is that a subtle LJBF, or does she want to keep me around, but play the field?
Lastly, if you couldn’t tell, she basically led me the entire night. I definitely want to remedy this. I know that if she’s the leader the entire time, she’ll lose interest in me in no time. I'm really struggling with balancing taking the lead vs. letting her do the work so she'll place more value on me.
This girl’s a classy down-to-earth freak, and I really like her. I just hope this shit doesn’t turn into full-blown one-itis. Hasn't quite happened, but I do have these bouts when I can't focus on anything and the only thing on my mind is her. At this point I’m actually thinking about casually dating her, but I don’t want to sabotage what I have already. I just want to keep her around, even if it’s only as FB’s.
I’d really appreciate your feedback on this. The more detailed and brutally honest you are about the holes in my game, the better. Feel free to criticize the self-eval too, because we all know all the biases that can fuck that up. Looking forward to hearing from you soon.
“Met this chick over the summer and basically clicked right away. Spent the entire summer text-flirting, but never saw each other since the night we met until this past weekend.”Why didn’t you see each other all summer? 3 months is a long time… Ever try to text and invite her to meet up?
“I wish I could preface this with a transcript of the texts, but that’d take too long. In short, she gave me multiple IOI’s right off the bat and made a few SOI’s during the flirting phase. Actually scratch that. She basically threw herself at me via text. Yet, we still managed to drop out of touch for the second half of summer and the better part of the semester.”Again, why? When a chick does that to me, I try to meet up with her as soon as possible and just escalate as far as you can go. You interpret her SOIs as an invitation to escalate and escalate hard.
“Anyway, she texts me over Thanksgiving break inviting me to a party in the ghetto part of town. I was bored as fuck, so I went. Super awkward at first. I called her and waited 5 minutes on the front porch before she finally let me in. People there turned out to be real chill and I got pretty drunk and high.”As a rule, you want to stay as sober as possible…or at least never as drunk or high as she is. When your mental state is altered, that’s when you make mistakes and miss opportunities. You want to be as clear headed as possible so that you can watch for those windows of opportunity and escalate when they occur.
“She and I spent a good amount of time fluffing, and soon after that I went off to mingle with the other guests. Later on that night I make fun of her because her eyes were red as fuck. Of course, I was high at the time, and she called me out on my own red eyes instantly.”C&F is really unnecessary when it’s clear that the girl is really into you. You basically want to do it if the girl is cold or giving you shit. In this case, it would’ve been better to focus on physical escalation and building comfort. In order words, she’s already pictured fucking you in her mind; you want her to get used to your touch.
“We go into the bathroom together to get some Visine in our eyes, and she starts bitching about how people can see her bra because her shirt’s too low. Being the retard that I am, I just said ‘so fix it.’ So she fixes it and then pulls her shirt AND her bra down even lower. Naturally I had to make fun of the irony. Again, she calls me out on my shit, so I respond with ‘yea truth be told, I very much appreciate the cleavage.’ After that there was like a 5-second staring contest before we kissed.”Very nice. At this point, I would’ve focused on getting her in total isolation so you could just fuck.
“After we were done I could tell she was starting freak out a little. Why else would you tell a guy you just kissed to ‘act normal?’ I was too high to really be mindful of/give a shit about the situation, so I just shrugged it off and went back to the party.”If she said something like “act normal,” if probably means she could sense that YOU were uncomfortable. If this was actually your first time, I can see why you’d be nervous. Not a huge deal but do realize that her discomfort is merely a mirror of your own.
“At the end of the night, I'm sober, so I ask her how she’ll get home. Her response: ‘no idea where I’m staying. Maybe your place…’ As if she didn’t drop enough blatantly forward hints already, this one I finally caught. So I take her back and the entire drive home she was all over me. Very distracting. I think I’d have driven better drunk lol. But at least I was able to CF with her during the drive.”Again, C&F is unnecessary here. But at this point, these little errors don’t matter. She just wants a good dicking.
“So we get back to my place, and as I’m cleaning up, she’s already half-passed out in my bed still fully-clothed. At this point I’m thinking FUCK MY LIFE, but I decided to do a slow escalation process (Vin DiCarlo's shit is fuckin gold). Start with her sides, move to her belly, slowly lift her shirt. As I’m doing that, she just grabs my hand and places it over her boobs (over the clothes). A few minutes later, she redirects my hand under her bra, then between her legs. All clothes come off, and I start fingering her.”It’s your first time! You don’t need to be feeling for orgasms. Focus instead on making YOURSELF feel comfortable. Orgasms are psychological for a woman. Unless the man is comfortable and dominant, she probably won’t cum.
“That was when anxiety kinda set in. She was moaning and shit, but quietly (mostly hard breathing), and I didn’t see, hear, or feel any orgasms, except for maybe one MUCH later in the session. Eventually there was insertion, but I was at half-mast the entire time and felt nothing. Though I think my physical dysfunction had more to do with me freaking out about not being able to find my condoms than it did with performance anxiety.”
We wake up, and surprisingly it wasn’t awkward at all. We avoided talking about the happenings of the night and carried on our usual fluff. She turned down my offer to make her breakfast, opting to dine out with her aunt and cousin instead. Her cousin comes, picks her up, and we temporarily part ways. Later on, she sends me a text saying “so last night was fun haha we'll have to do it again sometime.” Fuck yea. I invited her to a formal dance sponsored by my Fraternity, but she turned me down in favor of a rugby party. Wtf? We’re still in contact, though at this point interactions are extremely brief, partly because we both want to keep them brief. Is that a good way to go about this situation?Don’t take her choice to go to a rugby party personally. Maybe she just wants to keep things casual or maybe she thought the rugby party would be more fun. Just be playfully persistent. Stick with what worked during the summer: all the flirty texts.
Self-eval/Questions:Yep, and that’s a HUGE handicap, my friend. The funny thing is, you KNEW she was into you, so there was no basis in the fear. When you approach a chick in a bar, who knows if she’ll be into you or not. In a case where the chick is throwing herself at you, you have to escalate or she’ll take it as a rejection. If you think it's hard for a guy to be persistent, it's much much harder for a woman.
1. Dropping out of touch: I think it was because I wasn’t ballsy enough to make my own SOI, despite multiple windows of opportunity.
2. Missed quite a few hints during the party, including going to the bathroom together and her directing my attention to her chest by talking about it/adjusting her shirt. Though to my credit, after the kiss, I quickly defused the ensuing awkwardness just by not letting it get to me.The simple act of her inviting you to the party was an SOI. Her flirting with you via text all summer was one SOI after another. How many do you need before you act???
4. First kiss: I wasn’t the first mover. She was by a fraction of a second. I know what I need to do here: stop being so reactive and be more proactive. Timing and pacing this shit is really throwing me for a loop though. Guess it comes with time and practice. Oh, and forgot to mention that there was no kino prior to this. Just a shitload of CF. I guess sexual tension lingers, even after dropping out of touch.The C&F is just a way to cover up your fear of making a move. It looks and feels weak. You need to get comfortable with touching women. Make kino a top priority. Next, you need to train yourself to take women’s SOIs as an invitation to escalate. If you had those 2 skills down, you would’ve avoided 90% of the mistakes you made.
5. CF during the drive: no idea if that was the right thing to do. Maybe it's just community rhetoric, but I was under the impression that during the actual seduction I should drop my hard shell and show her my creamy center. In hindsight, I think I was playing with a potential gamekiller.You’re totally right with this insight. I dropped C&F from my game long ago. Just unnecessary.
6. Directing my hand: Loads of questions about this (for obvious reasons). Did I not escalate quickly enough? Was I not aggressive enough? Was she super turned on, or just drunk and impatient?Nope. Nope. She was super turned on AND drunk and impatient. She was super horny…clearly. She was flirting with you all summer, invited you to a party, and even insinuated that she spend the night at your place. SHE directed your hand to her boobs and pussy. She wanted it bad.
7. Quiet moaning: I'm trying hard not to get hung up on this part, but part of me thinks I was just another newbie trying to apply what I "learned" from watching hours and hours of porn... and failing miserably at it. In my defense, that was all I had, so I just went with it.As I said, women are incredibly submissive in bed in that they cannot enjoy sex unless you are. They cannot be comfortable unless you are. Focus on being comfortable with touching women and being physical with them and women will naturally enjoy themselves more.
8. "Harder": related to the last question. Super-turned on, or a subtle way to say "not good enough"?Super turned on. The “not good enough” crap is just your insecurity talking - something to work on.
9. Morning after: no kissing or anything like that. Just cuddling fully clothed. Should I have been more forward and direct with her, especially about my intent to keep her around? Should we have talked about the night before? Basically, what the fuck should I have done, and what the fuck do I do?What you did was fine. I wouldn’t have changed anything from the morning after, except maybe I would’ve just started cooking breakfast and made some for her without even asking. I may have just asked, “how do you like your eggs?” No biggie.
10. Turning down my invite: is that a subtle LJBF, or does she want to keep me around, but play the field?It’s hard to tell from just one instance of her turning you down. Her texting you after she went home is a good sign. I think she just preferred to go to the rugby party. Just be playfully persistent and text how you texted her over the summer. Just cause you fucked her doesn't mean you stop leading her.
This girl’s a classy down-to-earth freak, and I really like her. I just hope this shit doesn’t turn into full-blown one-itis. Hasn't quite happened, but I do have these bouts when I can't focus on anything and the only thing on my mind is her. At this point I’m actually thinking about casually dating her, but I don’t want to sabotage what I have already. I just want to keep her around, even if it’s only as FB’s.You’re lying to yourself. You’re not looking for FBs. When you “can't focus on anything and the only thing on my mind is her,” what you’re really want is for her to be your girlfriend. Don’t even delude yourself into thinking otherwise, or you’re just opening yourself up to pain and disappointment.
I’d really appreciate your feedback on this. The more detailed and brutally honest you are about the holes in my game, the better. Feel free to criticize the self-eval too, because we all know all the biases that can fuck that up. Looking forward to hearing from you soon.Anytime. I think your game needs lots of work but in this case, the girl was so into you and so horny, she ignored most of your mistakes. The truth is you don't need game to get laid; you just need game to get laid a lot.
Good luck!
-The D



